Forum:The Imperial "Civil Wars"

It seems that the primary concern is over the naming of the events and naming of certain groups (Whitecoats). The only non-factual information presented in the articles are the names. The actual events and what transpired remains the same (it's all pretty vague, to say the least). I'll start with the first "civil war" article and proceed onward.

First Civil War
The period immediately after Palpatine was killed and until Valak took the throne in 8 ABY was a major era of turmoil for the Empire. It saw leaders crop up and disappear every few months, vast amount of territory lost, and mass defections and the rise of warlords who stole even more territory. The warlords fought amongst each other, slowly eating the Empire away. The only reason I used the "civil war" name is because it's used so in official SW canon, albeit the canonical Imperial Civil War lasted several more years and the specific events (Isard being a major player, etc) greatly changed - but the principal remained the same, in that the Empire was fragmented by warlords, they changed leaders every few months, and they lacked direction, objective, and sensibility. It seemed to fit the civil war term for me because it was Imperial on Imperial.

However, since no one seems to like that term (even though it has been used for several years now), it can be changed. My suggestion is "The Years of Turmoil" or the "Years of Unrest." It lasted a good four years, enough time to see the Empire devolve from a galaxy-spanning hyperpower to a backwater (although it would make a come back eventually).

Second Civil War
The second event was a lot more narrow and specific. It lasted less than a year and involved only two distinct groups (not various warlords as in the first civil war). It fits the exact definition of a civil war a lot better than any of the other events. You had this group representing Palpatine, claiming to be the revived Emperor himself, and their big military resources, going to war against Valak's regime. So I don't see any reason not to call it a civil war. Alternative names can be used, such as the "Great Insurrection" or "The True Imperial Uprising." But it's not so much an uprising because it was a full-blown war, hence why I think it should just stay Civil War.

Third Civil War
I lumped several interconnecting events under one article, and what was produced was the "third civil war." In retrospect, it may not be the best name, but at the time I wasn't considering what to name it, just to get the information down.

Now, I have personal issues with this matter (obviously), but more than just because I left the Empire over it to form the NIM. The initial plot was just down-right dumb (and this is not to Lorn or Korolov). I found out how it all began (not sure if people will remember), but it went like this:

OOCly, people did not like Valak because of his immature behavior and it was decided to remove him from FH. He was going to remain as Emperor ICly for the benefit of the story, but it proved incapable of working out, so it was decided to nix him all together. What developed was absurdity. Osbourne, then an Admiral, delivered a message to the Imperial fleet, announcing he was promoting himself to Grand Admiral and that he had discovered documents implicating Valak in a financial "scandal" - diverting funds to FoxTech Industries and what-not. So he called Valak a traitor for doing so and with that Valak was removed and Osbourne was coroneted after several months of interim.

How ridiculous is that? Not only is it unbelievable to assume a mere admiral can accuse the Galactic Emperor (one that had great loyalty from the troops) of laundering credits, COMPNOR would have assassinated Osbourne before he did anything. The soldiers would have laughed at him and he would have been the laughing stock of the galaxy. But it went forward and it set the stage for what was to come next. Osbourne resigned after several months of inactivity, and it was decided to bring back Lorn Rhys. I had my own personal reservations about this, because ICly Lorn was a known traitor for the Vigilant incident, and that, coupled with OOC matters, led to the formation of the NIM (which eventually evolved into a movement to restore Valak to the throne, after an IC meeting with him aboard our ship).

But then things got more complicated. Lorn was ICly "killed," and Darth Pain popped out of nowhere to become Empress. In my opinion, it was poor storytelling; I don't think it's believable to assume some unknown lady can take the throne, with little to no established support. Darth Pain didn't last very long. I remember reading a few IGNews posts but that was about the extent of it. After several months, Lorn returned in the form of Malus, and he took the throne for himself. NIM opposed him all the while, and I do recall there being a bit of un-RP'd background stuff where some Moffs did not like what was going on, but they were dealt with after some off-screen confrontation. The next major event I lumped with this was the fall of Coruscant; Malus was FH at the time and was still ICly Emperor, but NIM was no longer operating (I remember because I took part in the Coruscant TP as a NR starfighter pilot and as a civilian working with Luke and Fegbarr).

The next event came several months later; Malus was overthrown by Malign, locked in carbonite, and reconstruction of the Empire. Behind the scenes, I now know that Vadim was pulling Malign's strings, but that's irrelevant for this discussion. I returned to the Empire as Danik and awarded by Malign for being an opposition leader to Malus. That, in my opinion, is when this "era" ends and when the next era in Imperial history, the Empire's rebirth and the blitzkrieg, begins.

So, in short, you're right that the civil war is an improper term, but a name is needed to encompass these events which are all interconnected and very much related. But, you have to understand what I was working with: I really, really want to make an effort with the community to erase Osbourne's coup against Valak from the history books and retcon a much more reasonable plot into it. There is no way Valak would be overthrown over money issues (especially since FTI was an Imperial operation to begin with). That is why I don't even mention it on Valak's article. It's too stupid to accept as canon to the MUSH. But, to sum up, I can't think of a suitable replacement name - I'm not very creative. But it has to be something that would be appropiate for IC history books/this article.

Whitecoats
A sub-issue over this is the Whitecoats moniker. It was coined by Hawke due to a lack of real information about this period of time. It was used to make a distinction between loyalists/NIM/etc and Lorn's people rather than being bland and saying "Lorn's group." To me, story is more important than anything else, so I think the Whitecoats moniker fits well into the story (Lorn was, afterall, ISB/COMPNOR). So it's not an unbelievable stretch to let it be. Honestly, I don't see why it is a bad thing - all it's doing is breathing some life into it and it fits with the events well.

I also find it interesting you seem to be accepting of the "True Empire" term. They weren't called the "True Empire" at the time, just a pro-Palpatine rebellion - it's something I put in much later. So why accept the "True Empire" but not "Whitecoats"? I don't think there's issue with the rest, though; Lorn did have major relations with COMPNOR/ISB and the Stormtroopers (through you), as indicated by the article, and he did crash the SSD into Selene, and he did have opposition from the regular military (many of them being loyal to Osbourne). A lot of players did leave the Empire after the coup, almost all from the Navy or Army, and I will always hold to the conviction that players are worth more than NPCs.

Summary
Imperial Civil War changed to Years of Turmoil or Years of Unrest, or something suitable.

2nd Civil WAr becomes just Imperial Civil War or the True Empire Insurrection, or something suitable.

Third Civil War, as I presented it, becomes something suitable. I can't think of a name to encompass those events. --16:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)